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Comments

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  Ethnic Embellishments July 17, 2013 at 4:54am

  It is a beautiful piece regardless of age.  I think that it is interesting to note that the gold-toned portions appear to be either antiqued or tarnished (as brass).  Mercury gilding, which is what most antique pieces have, leaves lovely, high karat gold and gold does not tarnish like this.  What's more interesting is that the silver on the same piece on the lower left is not tarnished at all...
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  Joost Daalder July 20, 2013 at 6:25pm

  I am afraid I dissent: I do not think this is good craftmanship. That has nothing to do with it being modern: there are very fine modern pieces made. This is comparatively crudely done, and also "antiqued up", so that buyers who are not familiar with articles like these could readily be persuaded to buy on the wrong assumption that they are old. Patricia, I do agree that contemporary work does need supporting - but not necessarily all of it, and I think there are far better new pieces than this which people can buy. Of course, this is just my own opinion, and nothing more. Every person has the right to decide what to buy and like, and inevitably we come up with different views on what is meritorious or not. This comment is not made in a negative spirit: but neither can we be expected, as commentators, necessarily to praise everything we see. It is a good and democratic thing if a variety of views are stated on this site, and people can always make up their own minds. If people disagree with me, fine!
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  Joost Daalder July 20, 2013 at 7:05pm

  I think the difference between the old woman and me is that I have carefully stated just WHY I think that a piece like this should not be accorded much respect. It is not as far as I am concerned merely a matter of TASTE, but of, in this case, mediocre workmanship and an attempt to suggest age where there is none. Quite a different matter of "everybody to his own taste", unless you feel that acceptance of mediocre workmanship and a false appearance of age is compatible with good taste. If that is your belief - sure, then ultimately I cannot argue against that!
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  Joost Daalder July 20, 2013 at 7:59pm

  Nothing to do with class, Patti! We simply disagree, and I think that is a positive thing. I commend you strongly for defending the piece, and in particular for so articulately stating your reasons and views. I agree with you that it does not pretend to be anything important, and I can certainly think of worse pieces! I am not trying to convert you into thinking anything other than what you feel about the piece, and I understand what you like about it. I am a "democrat", who strongly believes that people like different things for different reasons, and that such things should be said, without fear or favour. The moment we lapse into some kind of "groupthink", or feel that we cannot speak freely, we would be in danger of the site falling into decline. It is the variety of views brought to bear by a variety of people which keeps matters lively and which, I think, keeps us on our toes.
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  Linda Pastorino July 20, 2013 at 9:31pm

  I need to stick myself within this again since it is I who in fact brought this piece up in the first place.

  As a dealer in "antique " items , the only reason I brought the topic up is that for those that are in the learning stage, it is far better to not be taken for a ride by dealers that present items as old when they are not. These pieces are expensive even being new to people that feel they want to buy only real and antique items.  There is nothing wrong with buying new items, wanting new items and or buying newly designed items that are traditinal as in the case with the vest I pointed out. A fashion statement as is this belt to those that like it . 

  My interest in this topic is not to point out poor quality or belittle peoples purchases,  but to use my 45 years of buying and  collective knowledge to comment when i see false hoods being perpatrated.  I had a false hood perpatrated on me with the offering of a piece like this as old, and although I saw myself through my own knowledge that it was new,  I today in fact saw a dealer on another sight selling obvious new items as 19th c.  If in fact new collectors that don't have the necissary knowledge to know the difference, and books are written that falsy date these things, then why should i as a appraiser and dealer keeep my mouth shut ?  This sight then would prove to be not the teaching tool or open forum it was meant to be .. And of coarse as I have stated many times before I am also seeing and learning new information all the time and am not adverse to amitting when I am wrong , the way others are.  It is not a democratic situation if we then are only reduced to commenting or not commenting openly.  I believe the sale of new fake items as antique and for prices the same as antique is a fraudulent practice and feel I am in a position with my knowledge to stop that from happening since it is ultimately bad for business.  Why should I not want to protect the future of the market and trade when I myself have invested my whole life on it and stake  my reputation on it.

  Pieces on another sight of antiques for sale,  these being described as 19th c  early 20th c pieces which they are certainly not . I don't think new collectors would know these are new since they are being offered by a dealers whose stock is actually also antique. It gets quite confusing to the uninitiated..
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  SARAH CORBETT July 21, 2013 at 12:55am

  Hi folks. I think that the time has come to agree to disagree.
  I do not wish to edit the site, as I feel that this is not the ethos I created it with.
  I do not wish to remove pieces due to disagreements.
  I do not wish to deter members for enjoying using the site by becoming the EJ police!
  So please could we all accept that different viewpoints exist here and move on .
  
  Thanks
  
  
  Sarah
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  ait ouakli July 21, 2013 at 1:03am

  we all learn from arguments and infos.we have not always the same opinion. lets complet our knowledge from each other instate of going a part. at the end , we have all the same passion
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  Linda Pastorino July 21, 2013 at 2:23am

  To Tribal Heritage.  This piece was collected by a friend of mine who died several years ago. He collected it in the 40's and it was old then. There was specific notes on all the pieces in his collection as with all the Turkoman rugs he purchased in the field.  His collections are in many famous museums and the was a well known Turkmen expert. I also have seen many obviously old Yomud pieces with that shape and also with an abundance of applique work. Your explanation does little to convince me but if you think this is something new  then it's fine, I  know differently.  It is at least 73 years old , i know that for sure.  This piece below like others I have seen have a mixture of shapes of stones on the piece.. Am I to believe there is something vastly different about these two pieces?   I don't see it as clearly as the fakes I have pointed out which are absolutely new. 
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  Linda Pastorino July 21, 2013 at 2:33am

  I'm not sure I'm following your explanation of the applique on the piece I posted and sold to this one here which also uses cut pieces which I have seen on many old and real Yomud pieces.  If the technique is not a 19th c one then it may be one used in the early part of the century however it is not a new technique since I have seen it on many pieces considered antique in many books. And anyway like I said this was collected when it was so I know it is at least that old.   
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  Linda Pastorino July 21, 2013 at 4:16am

  I didn't buy the piece I was asked to represent the selling of the pieces and I knew him before he died as well there was data in a form of inventory and when and how the pieces were collected. Like other anthropologist he was a collector and scholar of high importance and was not what you are calling a grandmother.  I don't make up references and do not belittle other's information if people have it , such as historical documentation.  The fact is this piece had tons of patina, since I had it and sold it and since I do consider myself some one that has an eye for old and new items, I would beg to differ with you on this piece.  You are entitled to your opinion and so am I.  I'm not going to continue defending this piece however I did come across an octagon Asyk , so as you have described I guess this is also not old or real.