Photos

Comments

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  Becky Rogers July 28, 2011 at 12:06am

  My computer chose to commit suicide last week thanks to its OS. I am finally more or less in working order. Anyone got one like this?
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  Joost Daalder July 28, 2011 at 5:19am

  Hi Becky, - Yes, I can provide help in this instance. The most unusual feature, in my limited experience, is the point at the bottom, but that is not to say that that is unknown or "wrong". If you imagined the centre as a circle, you'd get the most "basic" and typical shape, on which there are variations. The belt, which is indeed in an Ottoman style, almost certainly comes from Macedonia (Greece), and one with a circle/oval in the centre is shown on p. 19 of *Jewellery from the Orient: Treasures from the Bir Collection" (buy this from Amazon, I suggest, if you haven't got it yet). It is there called a "pafti", and dated 19th c; I am not sure that yours is - it looks like being later, but a nice enough piece aesthetically, for sure!
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  Becky Rogers July 28, 2011 at 4:34pm

  Hi Joost,

  Thanks for the info. I am off to look up your reference - I don't own the piece it is up on ebay right now. Just curious to know if it is identified properly.

  Cheers
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  Joost Daalder July 28, 2011 at 8:38pm

  All in all it does not seem very old to me, and therefore I'd not pay much for it myself - particularly because (whatever its age) it looks mechanical rather than made by hand, which limits the appeal and value. Not unattractive, however, for modest money. You could also save up for a piece more important: I always believe it's better to buy one really good piece than three or five that are "OK but only so-so".
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  Becky Rogers July 28, 2011 at 11:56pm

  My thoughts exactly - I did find a filigree buckle of similar shape with the large central triangle in a World of Belts. The character and work on it far surpass this one. I am saving my pennies for something nicer.
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  Joost Daalder July 29, 2011 at 2:54am

  Yes, Becky, "The world of ..." books are quite useful because the Ghysels have such a large collection, so there is always a good chance that you will come across something similar there, although it is interesting that not infrequently one does not: just shows how much variety there is. Good that you found a REALLY comparable item, and could see how much better it was. That, I think, is the thing to go by: that if you did buy a buckle of this type, you are always going to be better off buying the dearer version, for other people will reason like you, i.e. that they'd prefer to own that. This is the chief reason why the more mediocre article is never a good investment unless you buy it at an absurdly low price. A market like this becomes more knowledgeable all the time. Today, those checking in here and/or at the EJ&A page which I run on Facebook, have an opportunity to learn quite a lot, and also to access information on eBay, other websites concerned with ethnic jewellery, etc, while in recent decades several books have also come out which can and do help them. So it is reasonable to assume that increasingly the not-so-good items will get sold less and less to people who can buy something better, and will only be bought by those with little money. You see this in the art market generally: although it is not ALWAYS right, increasingly it separates the wheat from the chaff, and pays accordingly. In a way this is counterintuitive, for if you spend, say, $300 on ten items each you may feel much safer than with $3000 on just one, but if the ten are all frequent and/or not really anything special or particularly well-made, they usually over time perform less well. I don't mean that Truus and I buy solely on this principle: we don't think ethnic jewellery is a top investment in any case, and buy the objects because we like them. But one does find, even then, that ten years after buying ten mediocre items one regrets having done so, whereas the best piece continues to satisfy one, and if one had to buy it again, one would spend proportionately more than on once again buying the mediocre pieces, as those have not moved up (as much). Thus, in fact, one is losing ground BY DEFERRING THE BUYING OF THE BEST ARTICLES. Later, one often regrets paying proportionately more for one, or seeing it rise to a level where one cannot afford to buy it again! It is always the BEST pieces that I have regretted not buying, and I have never regretted buying them, afterwards, when I did. And, alas, they often do cost more, though sometimes one may be ahead of the market in identifying them, which is very gratifying.
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  Becky Rogers July 29, 2011 at 4:48pm

  Hi Joost,

  I think holding back and being selective comes with a bit of collecting "maturity". It is only over time that we learn to look at the finer details rather than the fact that an item is available. It becomes doubly difficult when you are in a store and feel pressure to buy something. It takes time and opportunity to develop relationships with vendors so they realize they are going to lose your good faith by selling junk. Of course finding items of quality when living in Canada is difficult.

  Becky
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  Joost Daalder July 30, 2011 at 1:21am

  All true, Becky! It does take time and patience - and inevitably one will end up buying, particularly in the earlier stages, some things one later regrets (but that even happens when you are old - only less often, if you keep learning). The difficulty you mention about Canada exists here in Australia too. It is, I think, necessary to travel with some frequency, especially to Europe (usually safer to buy in than other continents). I cannot immediately think of Canadian dealers in this field, but America most certainly does have them, including Linda Pastorino, at whose pieces (all sold, if advertised here) you no doubt have had a look. We are not "in league" with her, but she does sell excellent pieces, and usually sets a norm for the very best. We have never met her; all our contact has been on the internet.  However, there are very good other people on the net also, including those selling more humble but good pieces, like Marlene Ponce in Geneva (as it happens we have never bought from her, but she is clearly reliable, knowledgeable, and offers reasonable prices): she has an excellent reputation to uphold. I do think it is worthwhile developing good relationships if you are serious, and we too have benefited from that. There are, still, other people we buy from with some regularity, but I must say that many of the older dealers who were good have given up, and I think the situation is a lot harder now. For one thing good material is simply far less often on offer.