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ID please !!! Jean Marie ..where are you ???

8 inches diameter..high grade silver and carnelianprobably we figured out the place where come from ..but not yet how is worn…picture of the back as follow ….Southern Eastern Turkey/Syria..Kurds people
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  • Back view2506061213?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024

  • 2463693959?profile=originalHello,

    I fully agree with the location: most likely southeastern Turkey, northern Syria, (maybe) Iraqi Kurdistan.  Worn by Kurdish women or (if old enough) possibly by Armenians.

    As to how it was worn: I never saw the arrangement of the backside before.  But: knowing a number of various styles of headgear in the region, I have some ideas about it.  I think the 'tepelik' is intended to be used on a headgear with a forward inclined top (see the picture of a traditional Kurdish headgear from the Van region, anno 1970).  Its base would be a felt hat (with cardboard or wooden inner structure), higher at the back than at the front; with one (or more) headscarf(s) winded around the hat.  The tepelik would be placed (inclined) on top of these, and fixed by using a long hairpin which passed through the headscarf and the two loops of the tepelik's backside.  Because of the inclination, this arrangement would be stable (although with only one, non-central, fixing point).  The small rod, opposite the loops, could be used to hang chains with dangles or coins, which would fall down on the woman's forehead.  I would expect that the coins, or the short chains with dangles, that usually are attached (all around) to a tepelik, were replaced by a forehead ornament (chains, with dangles or coins, and with three hooks to fix it to the headscarf or hat).

    I think that this is a possible use; but there could be other, that I don't know...

    With kind greetings, JM.

  • Thank you very much Jean Marie !!! 

    Regards

    Angelo

  • I think i have already said it on facebook, but i would like to repeat it here. There is a high likeliness that this jewel is not a tepelik for two reasons:

    1 The dimension, again 8 inches or 20 cm is pretty large and it would be useful to have some sort of comparison with other tepeliks (at least a decent number from different areas of ther Ottoman world) to see if this size does fit with the average of that of the classical tepeliks.

    2- We know that the presence of dangles or not is not conclusive to fully identify a Tepelik,  But i find it awkward that the back loops and bars were used to hang such dangles....they are just too far away from the edge.

    The two suspension elements are also different from each others, so in the context of an original use two systems were used to attach/hang this jewel, say a large sash/strap (for the bar) and some sort of string or cord for the two loops

    I am aware that diversity of tepelik shapes is virtually limitless but i can't see this to be part of the Tepelik family, i would rather see it as a breast/chest ornament of some some sort.

    Of course i have no thourough reference to motivate my view, only a gut feeling.

    in any case it is an attractive piece and highly refined and the possibility that this could be something more obscure and rare than a tepelik makes it all the most interesting.

    A brilliant find Angelo

  • 2463696021?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024Hello Angelo,

    in connection with the interesting comment of Alaa eddine, I send you some more ideas and information:

    1) a diameter of 20 cm is not uncommon for Kurdish tepeliks; I have one, originating from Iraqi Kurdistan and of the same type as one on exhibit in the Erbil Kurdish Textiles Museum; it measures exact 20 cm from edge to edge.

    2) about the unusual setting on the jewel's back (two loops & one bar): if worn as a tepelik (see my first comment), but with the loops (& hat pin) in the front - the tepelik being placed horizontally - the bar could be used to fix a number of long black silk 'ibrişim' (imitation-hair), which would fall down on the woman's back, and counterbalance the relative imbalance of the tepelik.

    3) if the jewel were not a tepelik, but a chest jewel (similar to the Turcoman 'golchakah' buttons / collar clasp), the loops would be o.k. to attach the disc to the garment (with a +/- long pin), and the bar would be used for dangles, hanging on the downside of the disc.  I add a picture of a similar breast ornament with dangles which I have, from (probably/possibly?) NE Iran or N.Afghanistan.  Diameter: 88 mm.

     

    In this case (chest ornament) we would face new problems: this kind of jewel is not used in Anatolia, nor in Kurdistan (as far as I know).  Thus, a new attribution would be needed.  Maybe some minority in SW Iran, close to Kurdistan? (since the silversmith's work has definitely Kurdish looks).  The closest area where round chest ornaments-with-dangles are seen, and that I know of, is Azerbaijan (the Tats people, in the Baku province).  And: those 'buttons' are smaller (ca. 8 cm).

    The search/discussion stays open for new suggestions...   With kind regards to all, JM.

  • I'm sure you will like this proposal ..thanx Jean marie ..we r traveling on the same boat !! Kiss kiss

    Angelo2506040390?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024

  • Alaa, I think we can explain the size of this tepelik by it being Kurdish, and worn on top of a turban rather than a fez.  Here are pictures of Kurdish ladies wearing tepeliks that are larger than their heads.  :)

    1611b413cfe4fac2710ccad03b414b9a.jpg

    e8998eafce13046413a94b0e076eedff.jpg

    ede7e69fdfb3e9c0441ea0ee005b0bfd.jpg

  • I can't resist one more, as this one looks absolutely enormous!!

    aec4d986907fdf524b95cd5862399a4b.jpg

  • I wholheartedly suscribe to your argument regarding the size (Lynn and jean-marie).

    I would love to have the feedback of anyone having seen the back of many tepeliks to update us on how the bar and loops on the back of Angelo's were technically used. tepeliks i have handled so far including the one i own with dangles have never showcased any back loops or bails.

  • Excellent discussion! 

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