Paypal and USA embargoed countries

Apparently paypal is using electronic moderators to flag any transaction involving the purchase or sale of items from USA embargoed countries (Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Cuba, among others). If you buy of sell such items using paypal, your transaction may be flagged and you account may be put under review, reported to the USA Treasury Office of Foreign Assets Control or even closed. This despite the fact that it is vintage/ antique and no matter where you buy or sell it (Europe, USA, etc.).

This shocking revelation came the hard way to me in a transaction involving an 80 year old jewelry item that I bought in the USA!!!! The transaction and my account were reported to the USA Treasury Office of Foreign Assets Control! So if you don't want this to happen to you, you either have to not buy or sell these items or buy/sell them using means other than Paypal.

After lengthy inquiries, Paypal informed me that the decision not to allow transactions involving items form OFAC/embargo goods country (regardless of age) is a Paypal decision. I've written to the OFAC to inquire about their policies vis a vis vintage and antique goods legally imported/exported before the embargo and I'm waiting for their response. I will share it with you when and if I get it.

I just thought I would send a warning out there to my fellow lovers of Middle Eastern/ African jewelry to take care! It's a scary world out there!

It is not only shocking, it does not make any sense. As I argued with Paypal (to no avail). Banning items according to origin would mean that dresses made with Damascene silk and Victorian or Native American jewelry made with Persian turquoise would be banned, so would Persian cats!

@Hillary

In the case of ivory, the goal is to stop endangering animal species for their tusks, but I don't see the point of destroying museum pieces that were acquired before the ban. In the case of the ban on items of Iranian/Syrian/ Sudanese/ etc. origin the aim is to hurt the economic power of governments of these countries. Putting politics aside, I don't see how buying or selling items that were acquired before the ban can fall into the category of trading with these countries. It just doesn't make sense! But that's just my opinion

Replies

Nada April 23, 2015 at 6:11am

:)) You are so sweet Ann.

Ann said:

Big hugs to you Nada! I wasn't sure if you were 'my' Nada! I just can't believe they are doing that. There's no discerning. The coin I was selling was so old, and one of a huge amount. They could have looked. And it's obvious you don't deal in new objects. (Sigh.) You know if there's ever anything I can do for you I will in a heart beat!
Ann April 22, 2015 at 11:04pm

Big hugs to you Nada! I wasn't sure if you were 'my' Nada! I just can't believe they are doing that. There's no discerning. The coin I was selling was so old, and one of a huge amount. They could have looked. And it's obvious you don't deal in new objects. (Sigh.) You know if there's ever anything I can do for you I will in a heart beat!
Nada April 22, 2015 at 5:34pm

Thanks Ann,

It's nice to see you on this forum, a warm welcome from me. The Cuban situation may soon change, when the embargo is lifted. The embargo on Iran is a different matter. It will take more time.

Ann said:

I sold a coin lot containing a pre Castro Cuban coin. The transaction was cancelled by Paypal and they reported me. My mistake was to use Cuban in the title. Now I'm afraid to use any of those banned countries in a title or description.

Absolutely idiotic.

:-( Sorry to hear about your experience Nada. It's shameful.
Ann April 22, 2015 at 5:19pm

I sold a coin lot containing a pre Castro Cuban coin. The transaction was cancelled by Paypal and they reported me. My mistake was to use Cuban in the title. Now I'm afraid to use any of those banned countries in a title or description.

Absolutely idiotic.

:-( Sorry to hear about your experience Nada. It's shameful.
Patricia Deany June 20, 2013 at 6:02pm

Well Nada you point is well taken but there is no understanding the deeply engrained stupidity of the bureaucracy and our politicians--must be our lousy education system.
Joost Daalder June 20, 2013 at 3:17pm

Good, sensible discussion on these issues. I remember arguing with a very strongly principled American woman on this issue who refused to distinguish between old and new ivory as - thus she argued - on that logic new ivory would come to be used on the basis of the claim that it in turn would also become old. I think this is nonsense. There is nohing to compel us to use new ivory, and we should not. But to banish or destroy old ivory artifacts makes no sense whatever: alas, we cannot bring the elephants back, but the old works of art survive, and deserve our respect and care.
Ethnic Embellishments June 20, 2013 at 11:59am

I wholeheartedly agree with attempting to stop trade in *new* ivory (a problem that has been on the rise), but I fail to see the benefit of destroying pre-ban pieces.
Nada June 20, 2013 at 11:46am

It is not only shocking, it does not make any sense. As I argued with Paypal (to no avail). Banning items according to origin would mean that dresses made with Damascene silk and Victorian or Native American jewelry made with Persian turquoise would be banned, so would Persian cats!

@Hillary

In the case of ivory, the goal is to stop endangering animal species for their tusks, but I don't see the point of destroying museum pieces that were acquired before the ban. In the case of the ban on items of Iranian/Syrian/ Sudanese/ etc. origin the aim is to hurt the economic power of governments of these countries. Putting politics aside, I don't see how buying or selling items that were acquired before the ban can fall into the category of trading with these countries. It just doesn't make sense! But that's just my opinion
Ethnic Embellishments June 20, 2013 at 11:17am

Well, as an American, this is *quite* embarrassing! It is the first time that I have heard anything like this. It rather reminds me of some Chinese censorship.... utterly silly.

I know that in California, selling any form/ age of ivory is illegal, no matter how antique or ancient the ivory is (even if it can be thoroughly authenticated), and that if one is caught, the ivory is confiscated and burnt- even pieces that belong in a museum.....
Alaa eddine SAGID June 20, 2013 at 11:12am

Utter non sense. I don't want to indulge into political discussion. But i have to say that the US bureaucracy and politic is sometimes very shocking!!

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