This is a reply to Patricia Deany's question "Is this a Rif fibula or is it made of mixed elements?", which meanwhile has been discussed fairly extensively. The piece was, if I remember correctly, one of Coutchillo's. In any case, I did not greatly like it (too heterogeneous). By contrast, I do like this piece posted by Sarah Corbett. I don't care whether it is "officially" right, but it has a beautiful overall consistency, I feel. This is the one: https://ethnicjewels.ning.com/photo/fibulae-rif?context=user
I was reacting to a piece which others had commented on that coutchillo advertised, but that was one with a "turtle" as its central piece of gravity, along with lots of coins, and fibulae at the top. There were several comments made about that and similar pieces. So my post is here apparently out of place, except that as it happens it was a coutchillo piece, and my general comments about this dealer are obviously relevant here as well. I notice with satisfaction that others too do not find much to admire. That is not ONLY because they are too new for me, though that matters - it is more a case of my thinking that his pieces are aesthetically not nearly as good as those older pieces (or sometimes perhaps even new ones!) which I like far more. These pieces have little depth of age, feeling, soul, etc. And the forms and colours are generally superficial too - just not good!
I like this to a slight extent, but only superficially. I feel the elements are not all in harmony with each other the way they should be, and I think that in general the piece lacks not only consistency but also has pieces ill-proportioned to each other. There was a "turtle" piece which Sarah posted a while ago (including lots of coins!) that I personally found far more attractive. Yet this somewhat discordant piece is among this ebay seller's better ones - most of his pieces are very new in an unattractive way. Thinking back about the "Algerian" ("Kabyle type") piece Truus and I own which Ayis pointed out - almost certainly correctly - is in fact Moroccan, I do think that AESTHETICALLY that is far superior to ANY piece sold by a dealer like this. Really by a long shot. I shall try to find back Sarah's piece - I do think I said something nice about it at the time, but can't remember. As I look at LInda's pieces too, one of which according to Ayis's criteria would have to be Moroccan rather than Algerian, I think that her pieces, too, are FAR superior to most others seen.
This seller coutchillo is dating his wares as 19th century and, I do believe, deliberately so rather than by ignorance. The jewelry is really well done, but appears much too new and I think anybody who handles jewelry for just a small amount of time can tell old from new, shiny from true patina. He should just be honest, because his wares are very nice and not badly priced for the weight and workmanship.
Tiznit should be the mecca for those seeking newly made pieces, of course.
@Sarah: thanx for the offer, i would for sure get back to you next tim i set to morocco for some treasure hunting
@Hillary: I must confess that i can give you 2 adresses in casablanca wich i trust the most, others are actually jewelry shops scatered around the city in any of the jewelry markets clusters that dot the various neighbourhoods. They cater for locals but when i am there i tour them to try to find if any old stuff is gathering dust on their shop (old ladies from the countryside selling their stuff..it does happen from time to time)
As for the first two, one is the old medina and the other one in the new medina (habous), drop me a line if you want the details and the names anytime, no problem.
We have generally found Marrakech more expensive that Tiznit, but it probably depends on what one is buying; we buy a mix of old and new for resale, but only rarely do we purchase collector's quality pieces. We know several dealers very well in Tiznit and my husband drives a hard bargain. We often trade items as well which helps price-wise. I love the Souss and have many fond memories of visiting with families and being dressed up in traditional jewelry of which the Souss Berber women are very proud.
Ayis, I'd be interested in any contacts you have in Casablanca; we've never been to a store there and we would be very interested to see what the offer.
Sarah, that was probably him, though he had a rather blunted affect and would hardly smile, though a genuinely nice man.
is NEW. I've seen them before and what really gets me is the fact that it's actually a copy of a Native American bracelet that I took to Tiznit to have repaired. This happened some years ago. Whoever our dealer friend had fix my bracelet decided to use the design in the modern Tiznit style. The following year, I saw several "copies" of my bracelet! It is most decidedly NOT an early 20th century piece.
As for the Kabyle necklaces (not the one with silver chain, fine silver beadwork, and charms on the bottom) listed, only one,
looks like a genuine, newer vintage Kabyle piece, rather like the one that I posted photos of a while ago. The other pieces with plaques and silver embellished with wire work, granulation, and enamel (the coral cabs are coral pieces set in red resin) are pure Tiznit fantasy work based on Kabyle designs. Stunning, lovely workmanship, but NOT Kabyle. I've been going to Tiznit for 12 years and have seen the modern work develop; it never ceases to amaze me. I can say the same of Afghani work, copying everything from Qing Chinese to Turkoman to Tuareg pieces. I've worked with Afghanis since I was 15 and seen the same as what's happening in Tiznit. I think it's fine to get inspiration from others, but not to label a product something it is not.
Ayis, If you decide to wander south drop me a line... I have some great contacts in the south and ouarzazate
Sx
ayis said:
I totally aknowledge the fact that newly made pieces are interesting and sometime showing very high skills, something that many have feared would disappear after the post colonial collapse of moroccan arts.
They are primarly dealers and they do sell what matches the demand, it is the duty of the buyer to educate himself in field he is intereted in be it antique, old or contemporary work.
I am maybe biaised but i feel that Tiznit is somewhat pricier than Marrakech wich is pricier than casablanca.....so far i managed to know some very nice dealers in casablanca and marrakech wich satisfy my needs when overthere.
I should wander a bit further south next time i go to morocco.
Replies
Hi Joost, yes I understood the context of your post ...don't worry this one has led to mant posts!!
Warm wishes
Sx
Tiznit should be the mecca for those seeking newly made pieces, of course.
@Sarah: thanx for the offer, i would for sure get back to you next tim i set to morocco for some treasure hunting
@Hillary: I must confess that i can give you 2 adresses in casablanca wich i trust the most, others are actually jewelry shops scatered around the city in any of the jewelry markets clusters that dot the various neighbourhoods. They cater for locals but when i am there i tour them to try to find if any old stuff is gathering dust on their shop (old ladies from the countryside selling their stuff..it does happen from time to time)
As for the first two, one is the old medina and the other one in the new medina (habous), drop me a line if you want the details and the names anytime, no problem.
We have generally found Marrakech more expensive that Tiznit, but it probably depends on what one is buying; we buy a mix of old and new for resale, but only rarely do we purchase collector's quality pieces. We know several dealers very well in Tiznit and my husband drives a hard bargain. We often trade items as well which helps price-wise. I love the Souss and have many fond memories of visiting with families and being dressed up in traditional jewelry of which the Souss Berber women are very proud.
Ayis, I'd be interested in any contacts you have in Casablanca; we've never been to a store there and we would be very interested to see what the offer.
Sarah, that was probably him, though he had a rather blunted affect and would hardly smile, though a genuinely nice man.
As for this seller, coutchillo, either he does not know what he's selling, or is fraudulent. The following item:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Morocco-Berber-Silver-Coral-Bracelet-Open-Back-...
is NEW. I've seen them before and what really gets me is the fact that it's actually a copy of a Native American bracelet that I took to Tiznit to have repaired. This happened some years ago. Whoever our dealer friend had fix my bracelet decided to use the design in the modern Tiznit style. The following year, I saw several "copies" of my bracelet! It is most decidedly NOT an early 20th century piece.
As for the Kabyle necklaces (not the one with silver chain, fine silver beadwork, and charms on the bottom) listed, only one,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300585009502...
looks like a genuine, newer vintage Kabyle piece, rather like the one that I posted photos of a while ago. The other pieces with plaques and silver embellished with wire work, granulation, and enamel (the coral cabs are coral pieces set in red resin) are pure Tiznit fantasy work based on Kabyle designs. Stunning, lovely workmanship, but NOT Kabyle. I've been going to Tiznit for 12 years and have seen the modern work develop; it never ceases to amaze me. I can say the same of Afghani work, copying everything from Qing Chinese to Turkoman to Tuareg pieces. I've worked with Afghanis since I was 15 and seen the same as what's happening in Tiznit. I think it's fine to get inspiration from others, but not to label a product something it is not.
Ayis, If you decide to wander south drop me a line... I have some great contacts in the south and ouarzazate
Sx
ayis said:
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