Hello,
I have had for some time an assortment of belts and misc pieces. I showed these assortments to a local antiquities owner , and though it wasn't their core competency stated that they were real, had identifying markers along with doing tests on the items for dating purposes and said late, late 1890's and early 1900's . She also mentioned "niello". This dealer is going to an antiquities show in 2 weeks to San Francisco and is going to show the pictures I gave her to people who are more knowledgeable with these type of antiques.
These belts were given years ago from an Azerbaijan man who stated they had been in his family for hundreds of years. My goal is clarifying what these pieces are (names, dates etc , origin) and what value they are. Just from basic internet , ebay etc. I've gathered some information but came across this site and it looks like there is a vast knowledge , on many different types of antiquities from all over the world.
I'm learning this site and will be posting the pictures but I have at least 20 pictures. I don't know the best way to display these images so if someone can tell me the best way , I would appreciate it. My profile picture has one of the belts but I don't see a personally gallery where I could upload these pictures.
Thank you in advance for your help
update: I see at the bottom there is at least three uploads but I think it will give me more slots.
JP
Replies
Hey Miriam!!
Thank you so much for the reply. I really appreciated your info on the belts.
I have cleaned the belts and they came out amazing. I was able to identify some of the symbols. There is one symbol that still i cant find even at the makers mark site ;(
My question is, is there a book or source i can go to for further assistance? Your knowledge and information has been so helpful and you can imagine my Armenian dad is very happy!!!
What im trying to distinguish now is the "city mark" . We have a CK but at the www.925-1000.com , there shows a CK but with a CKII. We can trace down the CK. It falls under russian/st. petersburg on that site. http://www.925-1000.com/Frussia_city_01.html . Putting together the maker and the city is the final chapter.
Thank you in advance!
I need to send an attachment with next post in a few minutes..
JP
p.s. date maybe also end of XIX century. not sure about that.
http://burusi.wordpress.com/2009/09/05/karachokeli/
On this link you can find some photos(text is in Georgian unfortunetely) of Tbilisian workers and merchants (Karachokheli), silver belts of this type were mostly wore by them.
Hello,
This belt is typical caucasian belt from first half of xx century.
Mostly its difficult to define from which country exactly are jewels, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia or Daghestan.
In Tbilisi, capital of Georgia you can find quite alot of same belts. Tbilisi was and is multicultural city and silversmiths working here were as Georgians, also Armenians and Azerbaijanis. But as a trading center of caucasus, silver made in neighbour countries were brought here for selling.
But this one is definitely made in Tbilisi as writing on the detail is Georgian and it says "Shakro" its Georgian man name:)
Also nielo portrait looks as Georgian queen Tamara (Georgians call her King Tamara) and even today she is quite popular hero from Georgian history. The King maybe King Davit Aghmashenebeli, also honoured history character from Georgia. But on portraits can also be just owner (or master who made belt) and his wife :)
engraving on the back of the belt is Russian abbreviation letters M.SH. I can not be sure, but maybe it can be abbreviation for name and surname of silversmith or owner(as the name on the detail is starting also with SH.)
This kind of belts are really common today in this region.
Maybe its late answer. But maybe it can be still helpful.
Who would you recommend to talk to about either selling or getting them appraised? I finally cleaned them , the anklets, with a silver cloth and they came out amazing, WOW...
Thanks for you advice and help !!!!
JP
I agree with you, Ait Ouakli, I have to of these too, with the snakes's heads. They are very large and I think that they were worn as anklets. They both fit around my neck like a torque, but I have a small neck.
i looked again at the bracelets.my feeling is, they could be from east saoura , aures until tunisia
There is some algerian bracelets fromm aures,saoura and setif regions that looks semilar. I m not 1oo% sure. I m just adding aquick feed back. Will look at them tomorrow. I hadatwisted one in hand but it has the snake heads. It was insaoura. Ghardaia exactly.a mzaab traditionel one
Thank you for the information Alaa. Im trying to gather as much as I can. Iam, however having trouble identifying the "makers mark". I went to the http://www.925-1000.com/Frussia.html in the forums but I seem to have a unique mark. You recommend anywhere else that might be able to identify the markings? I didn't post pictures of the makers mark but took recent pictures that ive blown up.
Also, would you know who to talk to in regards to the belts? I noticed you mentioned AIT OUAKLI for the braclets.
Any help is appreciated. Betty and others have been great. I was hoping some of the people that know about these belts would be online and see the thread but I haven't received any messages yet.
Thanks,
JP
Just to throw n a couple comments about the bracelets!
These are actually anklets from Algeria BUT, it seems that they have been worn in ancient times on a more widespread scale across much of the ottoman world (especially those with snake's head), the other type is typical of north eastern algerian semi nomads
AIT OUAKLI can tell us more about them for sure
Thank you so much for the information Betty. Thank you, the pieces are beautiful and I haven't touched them. They really need to be buffed and cleaned and I haven't done that so im sure they will look amazing when done.
Where do you think I should go from here? some of those on ebay I have run across but trying to find what the value is and some of the markings on the belt , Im having trouble identifying. There is a site, which im sure most of you have but the antique dealer who checked them out gave me. www.925-1000.com From there I was able to choose Russian markings tab and look at all the markings . Mine are pre edited versions from the late 1800's and I cant find my symbol on the belt which will tell me the city, on that site. I know the silver content but none of the markings they have match mine. Hopefully I have some unique items.
What does your friend advise to do ?
Thank you so much for the help!!
JP
PS I cleaned the bracelets/head pieces, with a silver cleaning cloth. Ill post those pictures..
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